Really interesting Joseph. I do appreciate your honesty. Nobody can judge you as a person or your heart. As for your beliefs, to the best of my understanding of the definition of heresy, yes, you do hold heretical beliefs, no doubt in my mind, since you deny the basic existence of the supernatural, the deity of Jesus, Trinity doctrine, etc. But again, I’m not judging you as a person. Only God knows a person’s heart. Only God is the ultimate judge.
Your fascination and obsessive interest in Jesus is interesting. There are many possible reasons for this that I do not think is appropriate for me to discuss.
The important thing for me is what Jesus always seemed to point to, which is the state of a person’s inner heart over outward behavior. Jesus spoke harshly against the hypocrisy and legalism of the Pharisees who demonstrated all the right external behaviors but missed the inner mark.
Only God knows the sincerity level of each person’s heart. If anyone is thirsty and comes to him, Jesus will give him a drink (John 7:37). If you sincerely are seeking Jesus as the way, the truth, and the life, then knock on His door, and He will open the door for you. Everything else will fade away and is just an intellectual exercise.
The real question is: what do you seek in your heart?
I've been around church stuff long enough to know that one person's heretic is another's hero. I've also been on this planet long enough to agree with C. S. Lewis that if any two people agreed on every point, that one of them is unnecessary. Or, probably more accurately, one of them simply doesn't care enough about the differences to make them points of an argument.
That being said, I've spent my adult search for Truth in the born-again section of the pool, not having found any reason to leave it once I'd entered. And, like you, I no longer believe in miracles - at least not in the same way others seem to. Rather, I believe that God constantly has His hands firmly on His entire creation, that what we call Natural Laws are merely the demonstration of God's consistency, and that what are called miracles are merely the demonstration of God's ability and willingness to deviate from the norm for a specific purpose necessary for His long term plan.
That's the only logical reason I can come up with for what happened when the car I was driving spun out of control on black ice with a car approaching on my right from behind and another from the opposite direction on my left, when I let go of the steering wheel and shouted, "Oh, Lord," my car immediately straightened out and proceeded forward between the two other cars. I don't know why He didn't let my car crash. Maybe for one or both of the other drivers, maybe for the guy riding in my car with me. Or, maybe so I could relay my experience to you.
So, if "supernatural" sits ill with you, I hope you will give my concept (approach, whatever) of "other than natural" a try. I'm always open to discussion, always open to better ways of believing.
I think much of one's opinion about the historicity of the Gospels stems from our prior confidence in generic supernaturalism, i.e., whether we think preternatural phenomena/"miracles" can happen. Since I believe (from personal experience) that preternatural phenomena are possible, I do not find it impossible to believe that a man may walk on water or multiply food. In particular, one of my family members has had an encounter with something which can only be described as "a demonic entity", therefore I do not find the claim that Jesus exorcised demons ridiculous.
I think you make a really important point when you say we do not fully choose our beliefs. It’s why so many of us have a “oh shit - I’m a Christian” moment. I think belief is a fickle thing, that undulates and changes across our lives. It’s why I do not think that entry into heaven is requisite upon accepting a specific set of beliefs about Christ. I think we too often conflate the words belief and faith - but faith is a verb. One keeps faith with an idea by how we act in the world. When assessing someone’s faith I’m much more likely to ask “how would someone behave if the Christian message were true” - which I think then includes a lot of agnostic/secular Christians. I do not agree with them - I believe in the empty tomb and the athanasian creed is a fair statement of what I believe to be true. But if you are moved by Christ to live in charity then I personally think you are living in faith.
Your beliefs have much in common with those of Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson was a deist who thought that God's existence was a sound conclusion of human reason, but he rejected the divinity of Jesus.
In 1787, he wrote a nephew that Jesus was just
"a man, of illegitimate birth, of a benevolent heart, enthusiastic mind, who set out without pretensions to divinity, ended in believing them, and was punished capitally for sedition by being gibbeted according to the Roman law ..."
and he wrote John Adams in 1823 that
“And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away all this artificial scaffolding..."
Aside: Adams also rejected the divinity of Jesus, writing his son in 1816:
An incarnate God!!! An eternal, Self existent, omnipotent omnipresent omnicient Author of this Stupendous Universe, Suffering on a Cross!!! My Soul Starts with horror, at the Idea, and it has Stupified the Christian World. It has been the Source of almost all the Corruptions of Christianity.
Nevertheless Jefferson esteemed Jesus as the greatest human moral teacher and accordingly called himself a "true Christian" because of this. He famously constructed his own version of the Gospels by excising all references to supernatural events, including the Resurrection. The "Jefferson Bible" ends with these lines:
"Now, in the place where He was crucified, there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulcher, wherein was never man yet laid. There laid they Jesus. And rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed."
I was not expecting US History to get brought into this, but I was pleasantly surprised. That is deeply interesting. Thank you for sharing. I'm going to have to look into this more.
It seems likely that our first six Presidents either rejected or doubted the divinity of Jesus and that Andrew Jackson may have been the first President to embrace wholeheartedly the divinity of Jesus.
It's hard to be definitive about Washington's religious beliefs, as he was a lot more circumspect, even in letters to family and friends, about religion than either Adams of Jefferson. But there’s a ton of circumstantial evidence that he was more deist than Christian. Washington almost never mentioned Jesus, and he rarely, if ever, took communion, and he tended to use standard Deist language when mentioning God (Providence, the Grand Architect, etc). Washington rarely if ever spoke about the afterlife in typically Christian terms, and he rarely if ever comforted anyone's grief by speaking about an expected future reunion in the afterlife. His own son put such passages into a letter to his more conventionally religious mother after a family death but not into the letter he wrote his father. Washington often used Greek descriptions of Hades when speaking about an afterlife but may have intended these merely as metaphors for the grave ("the dreary mansions of my fathers").
As for James Madison, he was also very circumspect about discussing religion, but his friend George Ticknor recalled an 1815 conversation in which Madison expressed a high regard for Unitarian doctrine. We also know that he was opposed to having any legislation explicitly refer to Jesus.
James Monroe was also very circumspect, but many historians think he doubted the divinity of Jesus. His public writings favored Deist terminology for God and he was a Freemason, and Freemasons were often deists.
John Quincy Adams expressed doubts about the divinity of Jesus in an 1811 letter to George Washington:
It is the belief of the great majority of Christians, that in the person of Jesus Christ, God himself again appeared in human form—That He took upon himself the nature of man, to teach mankind his most perfect law, and to redeem them from the curse of death, by submitting to it himself. This however has become a subject of great controversy among Christians themselves.—I have read very little of the numberless volumes which have been written on both sides of this question.— But I have endeavoured by assiduous attention to the New Testament, to settle my own opinion concerning it—There are so many passages both in the Gospels and the Epistles, which Countenance the doctrine of the Divinity of Christ, and so many which appear incompatible with it, that to my Judgment it is not among the things clearly revealed.—I know not how to order my order my Speech by reason of Darkness, and I therefore conclude it is one of those mysteries, not intended to be unfolded to me during the present life.
Thanks for sharing. I appreciate your honesty. I wish more Christians have this sincere heart you have in seeking, even when you have not reached the destination yet. Keep wrestling with it. If God is real, you might just find him.
Heretic should be a badge of honor in an age where so many proclaim their belief in Christ without having the belief of Christ - I found that particular distinction elsewhere on Substack.
Hey! I’ve been following your stuff for a little bit and I really loved this article.
I like to think of it like options on a table.. The table being christian faith and the options being the things we can and cannot believe and remain at the table.. The more I learn and especially the more I read Scripture I see there are more options on the table than some circles would like you to believe.. Looking at Christian history has proven that to me..
Enns has a thought regarding heresy that’s very interesting… Essentially along the lines that most heresies are simply trying to address and enter into the obvious tension in beliefs and go about doing so in a way contrary to the majority crowd.
Love the work you’re doing and what you’re sharing. There is room at the table for these questions, ideas, beliefs and non-beliefs..
When you say, I wonder what my parish priest would say, I think you know. I’m positive you’re aware of the Roman Catholic catechism. You’re searching. Constantly. Clearly you couldn’t love Jesus of Nazareth any more than you do. There is difference between ortho doxy and ortho praxy. Your thinking may not be orthodox but your actions have ortho praxy. That, in my view, is plenty to qualify you as not only a Christian, but a follower of this Jesus with whom you are so gloriously obsessed.
I was a heretic for many years in the sense that I did not believe what my church was teaching. It started small, with "Faith comes by hearing, by hearing the word of God". I never believed it meant listening to faith scriptures on tape without seizing.
I was not a young-earth creationist; I did not believe that Noah's ark would ever be found; I doubted that God is omnipotent and omniscient; and sometimes even doubted that there was this Big Mind in the beginning. I add some of your doubts about Mary being more than a young girl.
This induced a lot of cognitive dissonance in me when I preached. It limited the topics I could safely preach about and often got me into trouble when I did not hold back. As an autistic who did not know, with lifelong experiences of being deficient, I was convinced that it was my fault. My "old nature" just did not measure up. And I tried hard to conform.
I ended up having four lengthy episodes of autistic depression, and finally, cancer.
Today, I am part of a small virtual community where I can voice my beliefs without hesitation or rejection. They will be challenged, and we do not all believe the same, but we honor the maturing divinity in each other. We all are connected widely and get reality checks and corrections to keep us safe while having much freedom to go where no man has gone before.
I don't know whether you suffer from your cognitive dissonance. As an autistic, my threshold of acceptance is low. I don't know how dangerous your situation is to your health and wellbeing. I am just telling you my story.
Irenaeus wrote, "Gloria enim Dei est vivens homo, et vita hominis visio Dei.”
"The glory of God is a living person, and human life is a vision of God."
Joseph, you are fully alive, and your life is a vision of God. I see that in you.
Irenaeus was critical of several schools of Gnosticism, killjoys who claimed to have secret knowledge, and held that material existence was evil. You certainly don't claim to have any special knowledge or trash human existence.
Don’t worry about what anyone says or thinks.
“For the Lord does not see as mortals see; they look on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.” 1 Samuel 16:7
I enjoy reading what you have to say. I’m convinced you have a good heart. That’s all that really matters.
I don’t agree with you on some matters of doctrine, but this article is a real gem, as a fellow “heretical” Christian: First of all, being a Protestant in Rome is very different from being so in any other place. While in places like the USA the reverse is often true (with Catholics being shamed and persecuted historically), the average Christian in my city sees me as a sort of heretic.
In addition to that, I really struggle with the doctrine of damnation as everlasting and conscious torment, even though I know the orthodox Christian position is to affirm it.
My church merged in 1975 with the Waldensian church. The Waldensians were condemned as heretics by the Catholic Church historically and heavily persecuted (Pope Francis asked for forgiveness in 2015 as an ecumenical gesture.) Knowing the history of their persecution, the label “heretical”, I understand it might have been useful to draw the boundaries of Christian doctrine, but it is also one that has been used to justify senseless bloodshed for often political reasons. Because of this history, I don’t think we should call people heretics, especially in the hateful and polemical tones that are often used online. True faith is un coerced, and labeling someone with a term associated with persecution and bloodshed is unkind.
Ultimately, I agree with the Quaker John Whittier when he stated “Better heresy of doctrine than heresy of heart.”
No one can force themselves to assent to a doctrine they do not believe in. Faith is a gift from God. And always free. ❤️
It gives me the chills to think that burning people over mysteries was something people could ever think just.
And of course we might be in error. That is true of everyone at every time, as a limited human contemplating the mystery of the Divine. I hold on the hope that God is Love.
“I believe the merciful God regards the lives and tempers of men more than their ideas. I believe he respects the goodness of the heart, rather than the clearness of the head; and that if the heart of a man be filled (by the grace of God, and the power of the Spirit) with the humble, gentle, patient love of God and man, God will not cast him into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels, because his ideas are not clear, or because his conceptions are confused. “Without holines,” I own, “no man shall see the Lord;” but I dare not add, “or clear ideas.””
People toss the term "heretic" around like a rag doll. But actually, only a Church Council can declare someone a heretic, and only after confronting the person with his error and giving him an opportunity to recant. If you believe in a supernatural God, why not believe in supernatural events such as miracles? I've experienced a few life-saving ones myself.
Really interesting Joseph. I do appreciate your honesty. Nobody can judge you as a person or your heart. As for your beliefs, to the best of my understanding of the definition of heresy, yes, you do hold heretical beliefs, no doubt in my mind, since you deny the basic existence of the supernatural, the deity of Jesus, Trinity doctrine, etc. But again, I’m not judging you as a person. Only God knows a person’s heart. Only God is the ultimate judge.
Your fascination and obsessive interest in Jesus is interesting. There are many possible reasons for this that I do not think is appropriate for me to discuss.
The important thing for me is what Jesus always seemed to point to, which is the state of a person’s inner heart over outward behavior. Jesus spoke harshly against the hypocrisy and legalism of the Pharisees who demonstrated all the right external behaviors but missed the inner mark.
Only God knows the sincerity level of each person’s heart. If anyone is thirsty and comes to him, Jesus will give him a drink (John 7:37). If you sincerely are seeking Jesus as the way, the truth, and the life, then knock on His door, and He will open the door for you. Everything else will fade away and is just an intellectual exercise.
The real question is: what do you seek in your heart?
I've been around church stuff long enough to know that one person's heretic is another's hero. I've also been on this planet long enough to agree with C. S. Lewis that if any two people agreed on every point, that one of them is unnecessary. Or, probably more accurately, one of them simply doesn't care enough about the differences to make them points of an argument.
That being said, I've spent my adult search for Truth in the born-again section of the pool, not having found any reason to leave it once I'd entered. And, like you, I no longer believe in miracles - at least not in the same way others seem to. Rather, I believe that God constantly has His hands firmly on His entire creation, that what we call Natural Laws are merely the demonstration of God's consistency, and that what are called miracles are merely the demonstration of God's ability and willingness to deviate from the norm for a specific purpose necessary for His long term plan.
That's the only logical reason I can come up with for what happened when the car I was driving spun out of control on black ice with a car approaching on my right from behind and another from the opposite direction on my left, when I let go of the steering wheel and shouted, "Oh, Lord," my car immediately straightened out and proceeded forward between the two other cars. I don't know why He didn't let my car crash. Maybe for one or both of the other drivers, maybe for the guy riding in my car with me. Or, maybe so I could relay my experience to you.
So, if "supernatural" sits ill with you, I hope you will give my concept (approach, whatever) of "other than natural" a try. I'm always open to discussion, always open to better ways of believing.
I think much of one's opinion about the historicity of the Gospels stems from our prior confidence in generic supernaturalism, i.e., whether we think preternatural phenomena/"miracles" can happen. Since I believe (from personal experience) that preternatural phenomena are possible, I do not find it impossible to believe that a man may walk on water or multiply food. In particular, one of my family members has had an encounter with something which can only be described as "a demonic entity", therefore I do not find the claim that Jesus exorcised demons ridiculous.
I think you make a really important point when you say we do not fully choose our beliefs. It’s why so many of us have a “oh shit - I’m a Christian” moment. I think belief is a fickle thing, that undulates and changes across our lives. It’s why I do not think that entry into heaven is requisite upon accepting a specific set of beliefs about Christ. I think we too often conflate the words belief and faith - but faith is a verb. One keeps faith with an idea by how we act in the world. When assessing someone’s faith I’m much more likely to ask “how would someone behave if the Christian message were true” - which I think then includes a lot of agnostic/secular Christians. I do not agree with them - I believe in the empty tomb and the athanasian creed is a fair statement of what I believe to be true. But if you are moved by Christ to live in charity then I personally think you are living in faith.
Your beliefs have much in common with those of Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson was a deist who thought that God's existence was a sound conclusion of human reason, but he rejected the divinity of Jesus.
In 1787, he wrote a nephew that Jesus was just
"a man, of illegitimate birth, of a benevolent heart, enthusiastic mind, who set out without pretensions to divinity, ended in believing them, and was punished capitally for sedition by being gibbeted according to the Roman law ..."
and he wrote John Adams in 1823 that
“And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away all this artificial scaffolding..."
Aside: Adams also rejected the divinity of Jesus, writing his son in 1816:
An incarnate God!!! An eternal, Self existent, omnipotent omnipresent omnicient Author of this Stupendous Universe, Suffering on a Cross!!! My Soul Starts with horror, at the Idea, and it has Stupified the Christian World. It has been the Source of almost all the Corruptions of Christianity.
Nevertheless Jefferson esteemed Jesus as the greatest human moral teacher and accordingly called himself a "true Christian" because of this. He famously constructed his own version of the Gospels by excising all references to supernatural events, including the Resurrection. The "Jefferson Bible" ends with these lines:
"Now, in the place where He was crucified, there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulcher, wherein was never man yet laid. There laid they Jesus. And rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed."
I was not expecting US History to get brought into this, but I was pleasantly surprised. That is deeply interesting. Thank you for sharing. I'm going to have to look into this more.
It seems likely that our first six Presidents either rejected or doubted the divinity of Jesus and that Andrew Jackson may have been the first President to embrace wholeheartedly the divinity of Jesus.
It's hard to be definitive about Washington's religious beliefs, as he was a lot more circumspect, even in letters to family and friends, about religion than either Adams of Jefferson. But there’s a ton of circumstantial evidence that he was more deist than Christian. Washington almost never mentioned Jesus, and he rarely, if ever, took communion, and he tended to use standard Deist language when mentioning God (Providence, the Grand Architect, etc). Washington rarely if ever spoke about the afterlife in typically Christian terms, and he rarely if ever comforted anyone's grief by speaking about an expected future reunion in the afterlife. His own son put such passages into a letter to his more conventionally religious mother after a family death but not into the letter he wrote his father. Washington often used Greek descriptions of Hades when speaking about an afterlife but may have intended these merely as metaphors for the grave ("the dreary mansions of my fathers").
As for James Madison, he was also very circumspect about discussing religion, but his friend George Ticknor recalled an 1815 conversation in which Madison expressed a high regard for Unitarian doctrine. We also know that he was opposed to having any legislation explicitly refer to Jesus.
James Monroe was also very circumspect, but many historians think he doubted the divinity of Jesus. His public writings favored Deist terminology for God and he was a Freemason, and Freemasons were often deists.
John Quincy Adams expressed doubts about the divinity of Jesus in an 1811 letter to George Washington:
It is the belief of the great majority of Christians, that in the person of Jesus Christ, God himself again appeared in human form—That He took upon himself the nature of man, to teach mankind his most perfect law, and to redeem them from the curse of death, by submitting to it himself. This however has become a subject of great controversy among Christians themselves.—I have read very little of the numberless volumes which have been written on both sides of this question.— But I have endeavoured by assiduous attention to the New Testament, to settle my own opinion concerning it—There are so many passages both in the Gospels and the Epistles, which Countenance the doctrine of the Divinity of Christ, and so many which appear incompatible with it, that to my Judgment it is not among the things clearly revealed.—I know not how to order my order my Speech by reason of Darkness, and I therefore conclude it is one of those mysteries, not intended to be unfolded to me during the present life.
Fascinating. Have you ever considered making a post on here? This would be a great topic.
Thanks for the compliment. I can barely keep up with responding to responses to my own responses, so I have no plans to post anytime soon.
Thanks for sharing. I appreciate your honesty. I wish more Christians have this sincere heart you have in seeking, even when you have not reached the destination yet. Keep wrestling with it. If God is real, you might just find him.
Heretic should be a badge of honor in an age where so many proclaim their belief in Christ without having the belief of Christ - I found that particular distinction elsewhere on Substack.
Remember that many who were called heretics were later deemed saints. Relax you're in good company!
Hey! I’ve been following your stuff for a little bit and I really loved this article.
I like to think of it like options on a table.. The table being christian faith and the options being the things we can and cannot believe and remain at the table.. The more I learn and especially the more I read Scripture I see there are more options on the table than some circles would like you to believe.. Looking at Christian history has proven that to me..
Enns has a thought regarding heresy that’s very interesting… Essentially along the lines that most heresies are simply trying to address and enter into the obvious tension in beliefs and go about doing so in a way contrary to the majority crowd.
Love the work you’re doing and what you’re sharing. There is room at the table for these questions, ideas, beliefs and non-beliefs..
Peace be with you
And with your spirit
Thanks for this. Peace be with you and your spirit also.
When you say, I wonder what my parish priest would say, I think you know. I’m positive you’re aware of the Roman Catholic catechism. You’re searching. Constantly. Clearly you couldn’t love Jesus of Nazareth any more than you do. There is difference between ortho doxy and ortho praxy. Your thinking may not be orthodox but your actions have ortho praxy. That, in my view, is plenty to qualify you as not only a Christian, but a follower of this Jesus with whom you are so gloriously obsessed.
Thank you, Brad. I needed this.
I was a heretic for many years in the sense that I did not believe what my church was teaching. It started small, with "Faith comes by hearing, by hearing the word of God". I never believed it meant listening to faith scriptures on tape without seizing.
I was not a young-earth creationist; I did not believe that Noah's ark would ever be found; I doubted that God is omnipotent and omniscient; and sometimes even doubted that there was this Big Mind in the beginning. I add some of your doubts about Mary being more than a young girl.
This induced a lot of cognitive dissonance in me when I preached. It limited the topics I could safely preach about and often got me into trouble when I did not hold back. As an autistic who did not know, with lifelong experiences of being deficient, I was convinced that it was my fault. My "old nature" just did not measure up. And I tried hard to conform.
I ended up having four lengthy episodes of autistic depression, and finally, cancer.
Today, I am part of a small virtual community where I can voice my beliefs without hesitation or rejection. They will be challenged, and we do not all believe the same, but we honor the maturing divinity in each other. We all are connected widely and get reality checks and corrections to keep us safe while having much freedom to go where no man has gone before.
I don't know whether you suffer from your cognitive dissonance. As an autistic, my threshold of acceptance is low. I don't know how dangerous your situation is to your health and wellbeing. I am just telling you my story.
"How dare you!" -Greta Thunberg ;-)
Oh, Joseph ! You are not a heretic !
Irenaeus wrote, "Gloria enim Dei est vivens homo, et vita hominis visio Dei.”
"The glory of God is a living person, and human life is a vision of God."
Joseph, you are fully alive, and your life is a vision of God. I see that in you.
Irenaeus was critical of several schools of Gnosticism, killjoys who claimed to have secret knowledge, and held that material existence was evil. You certainly don't claim to have any special knowledge or trash human existence.
Don’t worry about what anyone says or thinks.
“For the Lord does not see as mortals see; they look on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.” 1 Samuel 16:7
I enjoy reading what you have to say. I’m convinced you have a good heart. That’s all that really matters.
Thank you, Charlie. This was comforting to read.
I don’t agree with you on some matters of doctrine, but this article is a real gem, as a fellow “heretical” Christian: First of all, being a Protestant in Rome is very different from being so in any other place. While in places like the USA the reverse is often true (with Catholics being shamed and persecuted historically), the average Christian in my city sees me as a sort of heretic.
In addition to that, I really struggle with the doctrine of damnation as everlasting and conscious torment, even though I know the orthodox Christian position is to affirm it.
My church merged in 1975 with the Waldensian church. The Waldensians were condemned as heretics by the Catholic Church historically and heavily persecuted (Pope Francis asked for forgiveness in 2015 as an ecumenical gesture.) Knowing the history of their persecution, the label “heretical”, I understand it might have been useful to draw the boundaries of Christian doctrine, but it is also one that has been used to justify senseless bloodshed for often political reasons. Because of this history, I don’t think we should call people heretics, especially in the hateful and polemical tones that are often used online. True faith is un coerced, and labeling someone with a term associated with persecution and bloodshed is unkind.
Ultimately, I agree with the Quaker John Whittier when he stated “Better heresy of doctrine than heresy of heart.”
No one can force themselves to assent to a doctrine they do not believe in. Faith is a gift from God. And always free. ❤️
It gives me the chills to think that burning people over mysteries was something people could ever think just.
And of course we might be in error. That is true of everyone at every time, as a limited human contemplating the mystery of the Divine. I hold on the hope that God is Love.
“I believe the merciful God regards the lives and tempers of men more than their ideas. I believe he respects the goodness of the heart, rather than the clearness of the head; and that if the heart of a man be filled (by the grace of God, and the power of the Spirit) with the humble, gentle, patient love of God and man, God will not cast him into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels, because his ideas are not clear, or because his conceptions are confused. “Without holines,” I own, “no man shall see the Lord;” but I dare not add, “or clear ideas.””
-John Wesley.
I enjoyed reading this. Thanks.
I like this
People toss the term "heretic" around like a rag doll. But actually, only a Church Council can declare someone a heretic, and only after confronting the person with his error and giving him an opportunity to recant. If you believe in a supernatural God, why not believe in supernatural events such as miracles? I've experienced a few life-saving ones myself.